Transcript - Evidence vs. Experience

4:00 pm ithorpe: [moderator] Beginning today?s #KMers tweetchat. Evidence vs. Experience #KMers
4:01 pm ithorpe: {moderator}. Welcome all. Please introduce yourselves, where you work, how long have you been involved in #KM ? #KMers
4:01 pm IdealistNYC: RT @ithorpe: Twitter Chat in 5 min.--- Evidence vs. Experience | #KMers http://tinyurl.com/y9pmmwc #KM #KMers
4:02 pm ithorpe: I?m Ian Thorpe, working on Information and Knowledge Management in UNICEF, on and off experience in #KM for 10 years or so #KMers
4:02 pm swanwick: Hello everybody. Rob Swanwick, I do #KM consulting and run a few startups. Been a KMer for about 10 years. #KMers
4:02 pm correlationist: #KMers #KM : Hi, I am Prince. First time, and here to learn, and expand my horizons :))
4:03 pm correlationist: #KMers I have no experience with #km :((
4:03 pm ithorpe: @correlationist welcome, glad you could join us #KMers
4:04 pm Ridgehead: Matt Haggerty w/ Ridgehead Software, 5 years in KM with a focus in the Help Desk, Service Desk, & Call Center areas #KMers
4:04 pm swanwick: @correlationist Great to have you Prince. Power of #SM: we meet in comment section of blog and now we r chatting. :) #KMers
4:04 pm jmcgee: Jim McGee here in sunny Chicago - freelance - been doing KM since early 90s - #KMers
4:04 pm ChiefExecMom: Theresa Sullivan doing KM at Bain & Co consulting for 8 years #KMers
4:05 pm correlationist: @ithorpe Thank you Ian. You are not a cricketer are you ?? :)) #KMers
4:05 pm jmcgee: curious to see how we'll tackle Experience VS. Evidence in KM today #KMers
4:05 pm swanwick: @Ridgehead Matt is also going to be our moderator for April 13 chat #KMers
4:05 pm Ridgehead: Looks like I'm the one short on experience in this group :) #KMers
4:05 pm correlationist: @swanwick Thanks for the invite, Robert. SM is pretty weirdly powerful, I agree :)) #KMers
4:05 pm ithorpe: @correlationist no, nor an olympic swimmer ;-) #KMers
4:07 pm correlationist: LOL!! Looking forward to today's chat :)) RT @ithorpe: @correlationist no, nor an olympic swimmer ;-) #KMers
4:07 pm swanwick: #innochat or #smchat folks feel free to join us. #KM is definitely a relative to your topic. #KMers
4:08 pm jondoc: #KM #KMers i am jon, first timer, and 10 years in the field
4:08 pm ithorpe: [moderator] OK, let's get started! #KMers
4:08 pm swanwick: We will be doing a joint venture with #innochat on April 6. And then their side of it will be April 8. More details soon. #KMers
4:09 pm ithorpe: {moderator} Q1: What is the right balance in KM work between promoting use of hard evidence and sharing of experiential knowledge? #KMers
4:09 pm jeffhester: Jeff Hester from Fluor, joining a few minutes late. Involved in KM for 9 years. #KMers
4:09 pm correlationist: RT @swanwick: We will be doing a joint venture with #innochat on April 6. And then their side of it will be April 8. More details soon. #KMers
4:11 pm ithorpe: Where I work, we r always talknig abt the importance of collecting and using "evidence" but we don't value our experience equally #KMers
4:11 pm swanwick: Q1: I think it depends on the context. (Can you tell I am a consultant) :) #KMers
4:11 pm mneff: @ithorpe Are you asking how much time we spend on sharing what other people do or have done versus what we have done ourselves? #kmers
4:11 pm ananeves: RT @ithorpe: Q1: What is the right balance in KM work between promoting use of hard evidence and sharing of experiential knowledge? #KMers
4:12 pm jmcgee: collecting experiential knowledge carefully will turn it into hard evidence #KMers
4:12 pm correlationist: #KMers : Q1. In this environment, and the imminent one - does any body have enough experience??
4:12 pm ChiefExecMom: Anyone can reproduce hard evidence but experiential is differentiator, why you hire us instead of competitor, so more important #KMers
4:12 pm ananeves: I am a KM consultant. I've been working the topics of KM for the last 10 years. #KMers
4:12 pm ithorpe: @mneff yes, but also what we can find in research papers and data versus what we experience ourselves #KMers
4:12 pm swanwick: Q1: Experience is evidential. It is just anecdotal. #KMers
4:13 pm mneff: Then the audience becomes the key. Internal folks don't believe what you have done, they want external evidence ... #kmers
4:13 pm swanwick: Not sure "evidential" is a word. :) #KMers
4:13 pm jeffhester: Q1: There is no magic ratio of experience to evidence. You need both, but in the mix that works for the culture of your organization. #KMers
4:14 pm ithorpe: @swanwick but does that mean we should only act on "hard evidence"? #KMers
4:14 pm ChiefExecMom: Part of hard evidence is how difficult/time consuming is it to reproduce and where does KM leverage (then KM vs. IS) #KMers
4:15 pm swanwick: @ithorpe I am saying that experience is hard evidence, it is just proof by example which is not the strongest case #KMers
4:15 pm ithorpe: @jeffhester but what if the culture of your organization gets in the way of learning from experience? #KMers
4:16 pm swanwick: RT @ithorpe: but what if the culture of your organization gets in the way of learning from experience? -> Now that is hard question #KMers
4:16 pm jeffhester: @ithorpe then you have a bigger problem, in need of cultural transformation #KMers
4:16 pm ithorpe: RT @mneff If you are selling externally, they want to know what u hv done not blurb abt what others hv done. Experience becomes key #KMers
4:17 pm Ridgehead: Isn't evidence just validated experience? #KMers
4:17 pm correlationist: #KMers : So, what are we talking about - Individuals or organizations ??
4:18 pm mneff: It also depends on how they learn, how they make decisions. Each group is a little bit different in their adoption strategy. #kmers
4:18 pm stangarfield: How do you define hard evidence? Do you mean formal research (e.g., double-blind studies)? #KMers
4:18 pm swanwick: The best professional speakers are storytellers. People buy into their spiel hook, line, and sinker. #KMers
4:18 pm ithorpe: @mneff since I work for the UN we are not "selling" in same way, but I think your point applies. What's our relevance w/o experience. #KMers
4:18 pm ChiefExecMom: Then you need to fix your culture (change management) RT@ithorpe what if org culture gets in the way of learning from experience? #KMers
4:18 pm correlationist: #KMers : Stupid ? Isn't E2.0 a part of KM ??
4:19 pm mneff: I find that if I present a little and their eyes start to glaze over, then switch it up, that usually pulls them back. #kmers
4:19 pm ithorpe: @Ridgehead yes, but then if we need everything to be fully validated we might not do much #KMers
4:20 pm swanwick: @correlationist #e20 part of #KM ? Depends who you ask KM says yes. E20 says "What is KM" :) #KMers
4:20 pm mneff: @correlationist Yes it is. In fact, many feel that KM can't happen until an organization embraces the concepts embedded in E2.0. #kmers
4:20 pm ithorpe: @Ridgehead and there are some things where well validated evidence is hard to come by (international development for ex.) #KMers
4:21 pm mneff: This also means that you need to spend some time understanding your audience. How they make decisions? Who their influencers are? ... #kmers
4:21 pm ChiefExecMom: How integrated are KM and Info Services depts for you? Same people? Same mgt? we are separate #KMers
4:21 pm swanwick: Q1: learning comes from ur experience and others', but I think decisions are better made by more rounded data. #KMers
4:22 pm ithorpe: RT @swanwick: Q1: learning comes from ur experience and others, but I think decisions are better made by more rounded data. #KMers
4:22 pm correlationist: what is KM, then ? RT @swanwick: @correlationist #e20 part of #KM ? Depends who you ask KM says yes. E20 says "What is KM" :) #KMers
4:22 pm Renee_Innosight: RT @swanwick: We are doing joint venture with #innochat on April 6. And then their side of it will be April 8. More details soon. #KMers
4:22 pm Ridgehead: @ithorpe So we segment based upon whether audience needs validation? External - almost always. Internal - depends on culture. #KMers
4:22 pm ithorpe: @correlationist there are no stupid ?s ;-) #KMers
4:22 pm jondoc: @ChiefExecMom we report through IS but have latitude that extends beyond. KM is largely autonomous here #KMers
4:22 pm correlationist: @mneff then, how can any organization or indiv claim to have enough experience, in the first place. This is all emerging, no? #kmers
4:23 pm swanwick: @correlationist Let's take that topic offline. Sad to say it can get very contentious. #KMers
4:24 pm mneff: @correlationist Exactly. The chicken and the egg syndrome. Key is to focus on the work and produce results and not get tangled up. #kmers
4:24 pm ithorpe: [Moderator] I can see this is a hot topic. I'm going to post Q2 but please continue with whichever question you feel most inspired by #KMers
4:25 pm correlationist: Sorry, did not mean to offend. RT @swanwick: @correlationist Let's take that topic offline. Sad to say it can get very contentious. #KMers
4:25 pm ithorpe: {moderator} Q2 How can we overcome resistance to use of knowledge that is not research/evidence based? should we? #KMers
4:25 pm mneff: Where do you start? Wherever they let you. Apply what you know to solving their business needs. #kmers
4:25 pm swanwick: @correlationist Not offensive at all. Just don't want to derail @ithorpe 's topic. #KMers
4:26 pm ithorpe: RT @mneff: Where do you start? Wherever they let you. Apply what you know to solving their business needs. #KMers
4:26 pm denniscallahan: RT @mneff: Where do you start? Wherever they let you. Apply what you know to solving their business needs. #kmers
4:26 pm mneff: @ithorpe Overcoming resistance can be a topic unto itself. I only have so many hours a day. I go where the energy is. #kmers
4:26 pm correlationist: @ithorpe :)) Thanks for the support. #kmers
4:26 pm ithorpe: [moderator] If there are any lurkers out there, do introduce yourselves #KMers
4:27 pm swanwick: Q2: Again it depends on ur "use". I think we should be ultra careful about using experience for decision making. #KMers
4:27 pm jeffhester: Q2 > one approach that has worked for us is giving experts official recognition across the enterprise #KMers
4:27 pm jmcgee: Q2 - ignore resistance - route around it by discovering and building on points of agreement instead #KMers
4:27 pm swanwick: Q2: on the flip side, we should use experience as one of many inputs for learning. #KMers
4:27 pm mneff: I try to help others document what we do so that others that require more hard evidence to get started will have that too. #kmers
4:28 pm mneff: @swanwick Yes, practice what we preach and show others that we apply active listening and after action reports to our work too. #kmers
4:28 pm swanwick: RT @ithorpe: [moderator] If there are any lurkers out there, do introduce yourselves --> we luv newbies. Say hi & join the community #KMers
4:29 pm correlationist: #KMers : As long as experience can be predictive, it could be used in decision making. Sadly, it is not, at least not data :))
4:29 pm ithorpe: @swanwick hmm, you could work here ;-) BUT shouldn't we capitalize on our own experience as an input to innovate? #KMers
4:30 pm swanwick: RT @correlationist: As long as experience can be predictive, it could be used in decision making. -> gr8 point #KMers
4:30 pm ithorpe: Also aren't there circumstances where instinct/experience are more helpful than hard data (such as in political negotiations) #KMers
4:30 pm mneff: What would help is if we started collecting evidence across the board and share what we can. What evidence do people want or need? #kmers
4:31 pm ChiefExecMom: Q2 - RT @swanwick The best professional speakers are storytellers. People buy into their spiel hook, line, and sinker. #KMers
4:31 pm swanwick: @ithorpe I think I'll take that as compliment. :) Not saying ignore experience for decisions. I just don't like seat of the pants #KMers
4:32 pm ithorpe: If I want to persuade a government minister data will help my case but it can't tell me how best to appeal to his emotions/interests #KMers
4:33 pm ithorpe: @swanwick so I think you will like by Q3 coming soon ;-) #KMers
4:33 pm jmcgee: @swanick - i don't equate experience with seat of the pants decisions - I equate experience with balancing due caution and action #KMers
4:33 pm swanwick: Q2: too far towards leaning on experience, u are running your business from the gut. Crowdsourcing has shown one gut to be inferior #KMers
4:34 pm mneff: @ithorpe Exactly. Tell them the data but ultimately they won't move on anything unless you hit their passion point (emotional need). #kmers
4:34 pm ithorpe: RT @jmcgee: @swanick - dont equate experience w/ seat of the pants decisions - I equate experience w/ balancing due caution & action #KMers
4:35 pm swanwick: @jmcgee But isn't it based on one set out of a much larger universe of experiences? #KMers
4:35 pm correlationist: @ithorpe Agree,data doesn't point to emotional triggers. However, advances in neuroscience now makes it possible to decipher emotions #kmers
4:36 pm swanwick: @mneff I might play it differently whether I am the convincer or the decision maker. If latter, I want more than experience as arg. #KMers
4:36 pm ithorpe: @jondoc please use #kmers in your tweets so they show up in the chatstream.
4:37 pm mneff: Another way to look at experience versus evidence is anecdotal stories versus data. Some people prefer one over the other. #kmers
4:37 pm ithorpe: RT @swanwick @mneff I might play it differently if I am the convincer or decision maker. If latter, I want more than exp. as arg. #KMers
4:38 pm jmcgee: @swanick - that argues for the value of seeking to extend your experience including vicariously - e.g. case based learning #KMers
4:38 pm mneff: @swanwick It depends. Some things I want experience for. Others, I want new thinking so the less experience may be better. #kmers
4:39 pm ChiefExecMom: As #KMers are we asking people to codify their knowledge (or is it talent) at appealing to emotion? or giving facts and asking for the art?
4:39 pm jmcgee: good experience also should teach you the limits of that experience (and of the hard evidence) #KMers
4:39 pm swanwick: @jmcgee I think extending experience is almost always a good thing. But one person can only absorb so much. #KMers
4:40 pm swanwick: Q2: Just like experience, so called "hard evidence" is based on the past. Still needs to be extrapolated into what might happen next #KMers
4:41 pm ithorpe: {moderator} Time for Q3. How can evidence and experience be combined effectively? #KMers
4:42 pm jmcgee: a relevant quote from Samuel Butler - Life is the art of drawing sufficient conclusions from insufficient premises. - #KMers
4:43 pm correlationist: RT @jmcgee: a relevant quote from Samuel Butler - Life is the art of drawing sufficient conclusions from insufficient premises. - #KMers
4:44 pm ithorpe: [moderator] 3b. Does it have to be either or, are there effective ways that you have seen where both are combined? #KMers
4:45 pm swanwick: Q3b: I think they are always combined. Very few people make decision solely on whether some number reaches some level. #KMers
4:45 pm jmcgee: #KMers - have to bow out a bit early today to get to another meeting - thx for a stimulating conversation
4:46 pm ithorpe: @jmcgee many thanks for joining us! #KMers
4:46 pm swanwick: @jmcgee Jim, we need to get you to moderate sometime. Let me know if you have a burning topic. #KMers
4:47 pm ithorpe: Also wondering whether crowdsourcing of experiences can add up to hard evidence? Anyone used this approach? #KMers
4:47 pm mneff: Q3 - introduce the topic, share what others have found, then share your related experience and what you have seen. #kmers
4:49 pm ithorpe: RT @mneff: Q3 - introduce the topic, share what others have found, then share your related experience and what you have seen. #KMers
4:50 pm swanwick: @ithorpe I would argue that the aggregate of informed opinions is hard data. See the research on elections from prediction markets. #KMers
4:50 pm christophconrad: RT @ithorpe: RT @mneff: Q3 - introduce the topic, share what others have found, then share your related experience and what you have seen. #KMers
4:50 pm ChiefExecMom: @mneff sharp insights #KMers
4:52 pm ithorpe: @swanwick agree- I'm a big fan, but have not been able to convince in house (and probably not for lack of evidence ;-). #KMers
4:53 pm swanwick: @ithorpe prediction markets are good in theory, but hard in practice. It is a change management issue. #KMers
4:53 pm correlationist: Agree w @swanwick re: pred mkts. Protean Strategies, a consulting firm uses pred mkt models for qualitative evaluations cc: @ithorpe #kmers
4:54 pm mneff: @ithorpe I suspect your issue may be the decision process. What do they really want to do? What are the issues you're not addressing? #kmers
4:56 pm ithorpe: @mneff issue we are facing is that the org. wants to invest heavily in research (good) but not so much on learning from ourselves #KMers
4:56 pm correlationist: It seems we need a change in mind-set to adapt to the real time nature in which we will be interacting with all data in future. #kmers
4:57 pm swanwick: @ithorpe What are they researching? Shouldn't they get some qualitative data? #KMers
4:58 pm mneff: Then maybe some research on the value of learning from yourselves could meet the bill. Bring in best practices but also experiment. #kmers
4:58 pm ithorpe: @mneff I wonder if it's because we don't have enough confidence in ourselves? Misplaced if true #KMers
4:59 pm ithorpe: RT @mneff maybe some research on value of learning from yourselves could meet the bill. Bring in best practices but also experiment. #KMers
4:59 pm mneff: I prefer to create next practices. Best practices and benchmarking makes people ok with mediocre. Need to up the bar. #kmers
5:00 pm swanwick: Gotta run. @ithorpe we should meet-up while I am in NYC. Maybe get Johan to coordinate. Thx for moderating. #KMers
5:00 pm ithorpe: [moderator] OK, the hour is up already. Thanks so much to all for the great insights. Any last remarks? #KMers